Dear Neil,
I’m glad I got to hang out with Mandy yesterday. And I am glad we got to see The Dark Knight together. How did you like it? It’s great, is it not? But it’s not perfect.
I think, overall, the biggest problem I have with Christian Bale’s Batman is the voice he uses. I understand that he does
t want to sound like Bruce Wayne when he meets with the police or when he interrogates the criminals, but I think he does’nt sound like a real man. Batman is supposed be a civilian vigilante, but he sounds like a mad baseball player on the juice. And it’s not just Bale’s Batman other men in the movie, like Aaron Eckhart’s Harvey Dent and Two-Face opt for the deep, gravely and unnatural voice. And I know it’s a comic book movie, you do not see me complaining about the improbability of The Jokers ability to pull off his major crimes, or how Batman, or Bruce Wayne (however you want to look at it) managed to pull that trick with the cell phones off. I am all for suspending my belief to allow the plot to sail pass the screen without a problem in an unbelievable world, but Christopher Nolan created a Gotham City that could easily take place in America without anyone being suspicious of the city belonging in a comic book. For instance Heath Ledger’s The Joker is real, and life-like. While who The Joker is remains a complete mystery, the audience can see that The Joker is a man. Underneath is make-up lays a nose, and eyes that are organic and can be found on anyone’s face. And Batman’s Batmobile isn’t a vehicle a seven year old would design and stick in a comic book. The Batmobile looks like something the military could, and would send to the Middle East to fight terrorists. So Gotham City in Nolan’s movies don’t resemble Tim Burton’s interpretation of a comic book setting caught on film, but a real place. So if Nolan’s Batman is so real why is Bale allowed to talk like a creature that doesn’t fit in the real…er… more real world of Gotham City. Also if Bruce Wayne spent his nights lowering his voice and roughing it up, in the morning he would be sporting a sore throat and scratchy voice.
But they didn’t mind giving Maggie Gyllenhaal’s Rachel Dawes a scratchy voice after she was kidnapped. What is with comic books and women? Just because it is written by men and focuses on violence more than most women appreciate does not mean the women characters need to take a back seat in the plot. I think I counted, like three and a half female main characters: 1) Rachel Dawes- lawyer, romantic interest; 2) Anna Ramirez- detective, barely her own person, and bribe-able; wife of Jim Gordon- house wife, kidnapp-able; 4) daughter of Jim Gordon- not the favorite child (more on the later), she her face once for one second. Everyone else is a man, and a lot of those male characters have interesting character development. For instance, take the more minor characters: 1) the mob bosses- all male, all interesting (depending); 2) the mayor of Gotham City- played by the guy from Lost who never ages, how does this guy keep getting cast when he has tattooed eye-liner! If I were a casting director in Hollywood I would never hire a actor/actress with tattoos (not that tattoos are bad, but for an actor tattoos interrupts your ability to create a new person); 3) the news anchor- could have easily been cast as a female and add more balance of gender in the movie; . As for the main characters, like Bruce Wanye, Harvey Dent, Jim Gordon, and Lucius Fox I understand this is a “male” movie so there needs to be strong male characters. But as for the minor characters, a little estrogen would not hurt anything.
And my last beef with The Dark Knight is Jim Gordon and his family. They have two children, I think one of them is a girl, but we barely see her, because when asked to pick who he loves the most Gordon does not answer right out, but with a gun pointing to his three loved ones the villain saw something in Gordon in order to pick Gordon’s son to threaten. I do not know why, but I feel that it’s clear that Gordon’s son is favored, and it isn’t because he has a vagina. Also the idea that the villain could push his victims further by targeting the most loved one is absurd. In an average, well-adjusted, and healthy nuclear family neither of the parents should favor one child or the other. Love normally does not work that way.
Don’t Forget to be Awesome
Love, Pam
Okay, I’m being run ragged working caricatures on 5 hours sleep and getting home, doing one thing, then looking at the clock and seeing it’s 10:30. But I’m going to try and reply to this posting on Batman.
On the drive home after the movie, me and Mandy had the same conversation about Christian Bale’s Batman voice, being all deep and raspy. Yeah, it’s for the purpose of hiding his identity AND intimidating criminals and playing on their fear. But a tactic like that should only work for someone of Mickey Rourke or Ron Perlman’s physicality and stature. Bale’s rendition sounds like he’s trying to be Patty and Selma Simpson. Mmmnnnnggggggh.
And about the realistic Gotham this movie portrays: I agree with what you pointed out about the batmobile and joker, etc. Again, Mandy and I talked about this too, but about something else. What does the next Batman movie hold? I don’t know how much background you have with Batman, but we were trying to think which enemies will be introduced that don’t spear too harshly out of this realism established.
Poison Ivy is a baddie that is at first to far fetched. A person able to command plants and have green skin? Well, that could be adapted to say that she is a genetic experiment and her DNA was actually mutated to be plant like and that she just has an empathy for plants. And how about Doctor Freeze? Also far fetched at first, but possible.
Cat Woman is a main baddy to consider, but after what Hale Berry did, I don’t know if they’ll risk it. Catwoman, from what I know from Burton’s Batman Returns, died from a fall and was mystically revived by a shitload of cats. And she healed and had supernatural reflexes. Translation into the new world? I don’t know.
But that leads to the last point about female roles. What you need to do is get the two volumes of graphic novels from the Mech. library of “Hush” Batman series. It’s a crash course of Batman history, all told really well and having nearly everyone in the storyline participate. Hush is 50% females. Know about Batgirl? In Batman canon, Batgirl does a good job working with Batman, but gets shot by the Joker and becomes paralyzed. She continues to work as Oracle, Batman’s live intelligence and research serivce/TimeLife operator. And there’s also Catwoman, Ivy, a character called The Huntress, the head of LexCorp (who is the daughter of Raz Alguhl) an important assassin character (forget name), and a few others.
But DC comics can just toss realism out the window if they do what Marvel does and combine their heros into one universe/reality like their comics do. Batman co-exists with Superman. They’re friends! So if they have Superman exist, then anything can happen. But that’s too much for one movie.
And that’s too much for one rant.
I know you don’t forget to be awesome.
-Neil
Comment by Neil — July 25, 2008 @ 11:26 pm
Maybe female leads are lacking in a lot of movies that appeal to both men and women because the movies themselves are real to life. Scary thought.
I want to read a Batman graphic novel, but there are so many! Thanks for the suggestion.
I wonder if Christopher Nolan is going to off The Joker in his Batman world. And I wonder how many more Batman movies he is going to make. I am hoping for at least one more.
Could the Riddler and the Penguin guy exist in Nolan’s real to life Batman world?
Comment by Pam — July 26, 2008 @ 1:13 am
Feminists are probably having a hayday with this movie. While Rachel *is* a strong character, I felt like they used that as a gloss because she is still getting thrown out windows and whatnot, then in the end she comes down with “Women in Refrigerators” syndrome*. However, I think her death was well done and very human and it is key to the plot.
DC does not have a lack of strong female leads and I’m surprised they aren’t in the movies yet. Batgirl jumps to mind… She’s the adopted daughter (and niece) of Gordon and I could see he getting written into the movies easily, but I think the writers will “play it safe” and use Robin before they use her.
May I also point out that Poison Ivy does not control plants. While she does use plants a lot (for their toxins and such) and probably loves them more than most (all?) humans, she is basically a super-gardener and eco-terrorist. I think I’d like to see a serious Poison Ivy played by Nicole Kidman.
Also on my “next movie” list would be Harely Quinn. Her and the Joker’s relationship is overly complicated and interesting. The only downside to this is that I don’t want to risk anyone else playing the Joker after Heath in this movie “universe”.
Talia al Ghul would also make a good character in the next movie. Perhaps trying to avenge her father’s “death”? But, like the comics, it could be a “test” to see if Bruce is cut out to marry her… But given the tension between al Ghul and Bruce at the end of the last movie, that might not work.
As I said above, the third movie may get one of the four Robins in there. They could do Dick’s story (who eventually grew up and became Nightwing), but that was the one done in the last series of movies. Jason Todd, the second (angry) Robin might work, or Tim Drake, the current Robin, who has a detective state of mind.
Or, sticking with the talk about the movies needing GURL POWER, they could use Stephanie, who was the daughter of a bad guy and has an interesting story behind why she became Robin, but I’m not sure how they could get that into the film.**
DC and Marvel have gotten some really good female leads over the years and Hush is a good example of that so GO READ IT! Not to mention it is just a really good story.
Okay that is enough of me being a nerd for now.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Refrigerators
**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Brown
Comment by Mandy — July 26, 2008 @ 1:17 am
Okay, back to being a nerd because you asked “Could the Riddler and the Penguin guy exist in Nolan’s real to life Batman world?”
Yes, I think they both could. As far as I know, the more comics-based Penguin was less crazy guy and more high-class villain. After all the stuff that went down in TDK, I could see some of Gotham’s organized crime wanting to team up with someone more like them and less like Joker.
In my travels around the internets, I saw someone mention this idea: If Batman inspired villains to dress up and become “super villains”, what if the Joker inspired crazy men to act even crazier? With the Joker in jail, I could see the Riddler stepping up to try to take his place. Riddler has certain personality traits that could be expanded to make the character darker, like his OCD:
The Riddler’s criminal modus operandi is so deeply ingrained into his personality that he is virtually powerless to stop himself from acting it out. He cannot simply kill his opponents when he has the upper hand; he has to put them in a deathtrap to see if he can devise a life and death intellectual challenge that the hero cannot solve and escape. However, unlike many of Batman’s themed enemies, Riddler’s compulsion is quite flexible, allowing him to commit any crime as long as he can describe it in a riddle or puzzle. (That’s basicly from Wikipedia)
The more I think about it, the more I’d like to see Riddler in the next film. I’m glad I don’t get to decide these things, I have too many choices.
Comment by Mandy — July 26, 2008 @ 1:26 am
I did not like the last moments of Rachel Dawes life. “Harvey, my answer is yes”, don’t make me throw up. I don’t mind that Rachel decided she wanted to marry Harvey Dent, but the way Maggie Gyllenhaal performed that line, yuck. It was like all this woman wanted in that moment was a big white gown, lots of flowers, and matching bride’s maid’s outfits. I’m sure many could disagree, but I think in that moment, with that line the character should have been more fearful; to me she seemed like she was swooning.
Comment by Pam — July 26, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
At that point she thought that they would both be saved, so I guess that is why she was trying to stay upbeat?
I was focusing on the part of her death when she knew she was going to die for sure. She didn’t die screaming or whining, she was quite calm. Dignified, even.
Comment by Mandy — July 28, 2008 @ 10:44 pm
No, I don’t think she was being upbeat. I think Maggie Gyllenhaal was being a bad actress. And I think when she died a moment later it caught her by surprised and shocked her although she knew she was probably going to die.
Comment by Pam — July 29, 2008 @ 9:59 am